Everything You Thought You Knew About Bees Is WRONG - with David Mizejewski

In this episode, TV talent, author and naturalist, David Mizejewski from the National Wildlife Federation busts myths about bees, highlights the importance of native bees & plants, and shares practical tips for supporting pollinators & wildlife in your own yard. David also covers why planting native plants is now easier than ever thanks to NWF's Garden for Wildlife website where you can order the right plants at the right time.

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Podcast Music: Positive Carefree Folk Pop
Artist: Burgberg
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If each of us did that, even in a little small way, we would exponentially increase the amount of habitat and we would see more beautiful songbirds and hear them. We would be seeing more beautiful butterflies. We would be seeing more of these native bees doing this really incredibly important ecological work of pollinating nature that's feeding everybody else up and down the food webs, including us.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm Rick Schwartz, educator, public speaker, and all-around curious guy. Over the years, my curiosity and experiences, along with the many people I have worked with, revealed to me we all have a desire to feel connected to the natural world. You're listening to Animals, Nature, and You, a podcast that explores a connection between animals, nature, and humans. A podcast that celebrates learning more, following our curiosity, and reconnecting with the natural world. Welcome to another episode of Animals, Nature and Human. As you know, my name is Rick Schwartz, and I'm really happy you're here because well, this is this is April 30th when this comes out. We are officially a three-month-old podcast, and it continues to grow. And so if you're new here, if you're just joining us now, thank you for showing up. I appreciate it. For those of you who've been along since the beginning of January, you're awesome. I appreciate you. And everyone we've collected along the way. And I know this because I can see the numbers of how it grows. And every month we have more and more listeners. And that's because you're sharing this. That's because you're telling people about it. You're finding this podcast interesting enough that you're going to share an episode or something with someone. And I appreciate that tremendously. The goal of this podcast from the beginning has always been to make a difference, to highlight the things about animals, nature, and you, because we're all connected. Animals, nature, and humans, we're all one. Nature's not over there. Nature's not something we go visit. We are in it. Now, yes, sometimes we're in our buildings, in our in our houses, in our offices, our schools. It doesn't feel like nature, it doesn't feel like there's animals around, but everything we do has an impact and is a part of that. And sometimes we're surprised when we have the opportunity to learn a little more about nature. And that's why I asked David to come back on the show. Well, actually, this is David's first time on the show. David Mizajewski and I have known each other for a long time. We used to do very similar work, going on TV all the time, educating people about wildlife. He's been with the National Wildlife Federation for a long time and is still doing amazing work. And we did a live together on Instagram back in November talking about their Leave the Leaves program. In other words, encouraging people not to rake up the leaves because that's where a lot of animals will spend time, insects and other bugs and things that are important for springtime animals to be the food source. So whether it's something that's going to winter down in the uh mulch of the leaves or lay its eggs there or whatever it might be. So we had this whole discussion about that and how important that was. And as we're wrapping up, he's like, oh, by the way, I should tell you about all the different things you don't know about bees. And I was like, wait, what? So here we are. We are going to have a conversation with David Mesodiouski about bees. And I'm super excited about it. Here's the thing. Okay, listen for how many species of bees there are other than the honeybee. Listen for what you can do for these bees and why they're so important for us. And also the fact that most bees, well, not most, a good majority of them don't sting. I think I'll have to ask him if it's the majority don't or the majority, but either way, it's a it's gonna be a great talk. I want to do a quick intro here, read you his bio so you have an idea, just in case you don't know who David is. And if you don't, I'll let it pass this time. But after this episode, you're gonna want to know more about him. And I'll have all the links and everything down in the show notes below, so don't worry about that. David Mezidwski is a lifelong naturalist. He spent his youth exploring suburban woods, fields, and wetlands, observing and learning about surprising diversity of wildlife that inhabits all those spaces. He then went on to get his degree in human and natural ecology from Emory University. And today, David is a television host, an author with a lot of great books. We'll have to ask him about that, and a naturalist with the National Wildlife Federation. He has hosted a series on Animal Planet and on Atgeo Wild. He's been on all the shows, Conan O'Brien, the Martha Stewart Show, NBC's Today Show, uh, Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, and so many more. He is dedicated to using his knowledge and his enthusiasm to help others understand and support wildlife and the natural world. So with that, David, I have to say we have these conversations. Normally I'm the one that has to talk all the time, so I'm really excited you're here. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on Animals, Nature, and You.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Absolutely. You know, I love coming on your shows and chatting about nature and getting the word out to everybody. So I'm thrilled to be here. And you do it so well.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

And to reference what you just mentioned, back when I initially had gotten laid off from work, I just started getting on Instagram Lives and getting a hold of people, saying, hey, let's talk about this. You were nice enough last November to join me on Instagram Live. We talked about the campaign the National Wildlife Federation was doing, which was the leaves of leaves. And so many great tips and reasons why we want to leave that mulch, that natural mulch, those leaves for wildlife for the bugs that have that turn into caterpillars that are food for songbirds. As we were wrapping up, we just finished, you know, we did talk a little bit about pollinators. And you're like, oh, we also need to talk about why everything you think you know about bees is wrong. And I was like, yes. Yes, exactly. So, so here we are, many, many months later. We finally were able to get scheduled. Uh, we're sitting here at the end of April, which I think is a really good time to talk about bees. And my knowledge of bees is that we have a lot of different wild native species that don't act like the honeybee. And I know that honeybees were imported from Europe, so they're technically not a native species, although they do help with a lot of pollination. So lay it on us. What do we need to know about this?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

What's going on? Well, first I want to say um I love that I'm back now because you're right. Back in the fall, we were celebrating at the National Wildlife Federation Leave the Leaves Month. Um, and as you said, that's all about, you know, why our fallen leaves are actually really important habitat for all sorts of wildlife. Um, you know, moths and all sorts of insects that overwinter in them and birds that forage in them, and you know, all of those critters that are overwintering are now emerging and are becoming the main food source for 96% of our backyard birds. So if you want to see birds in your yard, you got to keep those leaves. One of the groups of insects that actually use those leaves are bumblebees. So as we're wrapping up April, next month, the month of May, the National Wildlife Federation's next big campaign is called Garden for Wildlife Month. So you're right, it couldn't be more timely for us to be talking about this because all of those bees are emerging. They're out there doing their pollination work, and there's so many things that we can do to help support them. Um, and so we can talk more about that after I dispel all of the myths about bees. So we started in the right spot. And so the the thing is is that spoiler, right? The the spoiler is that what we generally as a society know about bees is really based on one bee, and that is the European honey bee. And that is the bee, like you said, that you know, we imported from Europe for its agriculture services. So, you know, it's pollination services of crops, it's production of honey, which we all love to eat. Uh beeswax, too, you know, is a is an important product. You know, when Europeans colonized North America, they brought over these bees that they had back in Europe. But here's the thing: as you mentioned, they're not a native species here. And at the National Wildlife Federation, we really do focus on our native indigenous flora and fauna when it comes to conservation. Um, and so honeybees are actually, you know, they remain hugely important for agriculture. But, you know, they're not really wildlife in the sense that, you know, a cow is not wildlife. And so, or a chicken is not wildlife. You know, honeybees are really um a semi-domesticated animal. And in North America, they largely exist in managed hives by people. So they're not really wildlife. And I think that's the first thing for people to kind of wrap their minds around because you hear a lot about, oh, you know, colony collapse disorder and you know, honeybees are disappearing. And then people are like, what's the National Wildlife Federation doing about it? And we're not doing anything about that because in the same for the same reason we're not trying to save heritage breed cows or you know, worrying about the chicken population, right? There, it's not wildlife. It's an important ag issue, and the ag folks, you know, that's their that's their area, right? But at the same time, here in North America, we've got almost 4,000 different wild native bee species out of 20,000 bees, bee species on the planet, right? And so the honey bee, in large part, is completely different. The complete exception to the rule for what it means to actually be a bee that applies to the vast majority of those 20,000 bee species on the planet and the 4,000 that we have here in North America.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Just real quick, jumping in. 4,000 different species here in North America. I can say, as someone who's worked in wildlife education and with animals, and albeit bugs, insects, and whatnot, have never been my specialty. Always curious and loved them and love to talk to an entomologist, but I had no idea there were 4,000 different species. Yeah. I do know though, enough that there are a lot of the bee species that are native. They don't look like what we traditionally think are a bee.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Well, this is this is my first myth busting thing, right? About, you know, everything you think you know about bees. There's really like five things that if you ask anybody on the street, tell me about a bee, they're gonna say things like, oh, bees are you know black and yellow and striped, right? Bees live in hives and they have queens and they make honey and they'll sting you. That's actually not true for all like the vast majority of bees. Those things don't really apply. So let's let's tick through them one at a time. And we'll start with that that sort of color thing, right? And so um, the whole black and yellow or brown and yellow type striping that you see on honey bees, it does exist in in many bee species in some way, shape, or form. But many bees do not look anything like that. And so, to your point, a minute ago, there are all these bees flying out around there that you probably have seen and you had no idea it was a bee. Um, and so bees come in metallic green and blue and black and red and metallic gold and all sorts of other combinations than that, you know, what we think of as a bee, which is that, you know, sort of yellow and black striping. You know, when we're kids, we color the bee with our yellow crayon. Um and so uh, so yeah, that's the first one is that bees have a wide diversity of colors. And I'll add on to that too, is um they come in a wide range of sizes, too. So a honey bee is probably, I would say, sort of like a medium-sized bee. On the bigger end, you've got the bumblebees and you've got the carpenter bees, who could be, you know, two, three, four times the size of a honey bee. But on the other end of the spectrum, many of our native bees are actually super tiny. They're these little itty bitty, you know, maybe half the size of a honey bee or even smaller. There's actually, I I don't know the exact dimensions, but there's the the Perdita bee. It doesn't even have a common name. That's its genus name. Um, I think is the smallest bee species. And it's just like super, super tiny, like, you know, the the size of a period or something like that, um, all the way up to these, you know, giant carpenter bees, which can be, you know, an inch and a half or or longer, um, you know, big burly bees. And so bees not only come in a wide diversity of colors, they also come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, too. So that's that's kind of the first thing I think to get you over the idea of like bees are black and yellow and they're all this big. No, that's not true. Um, but the next batch of of myths or things that we think we know about bees, but actually don't apply to most bees, really have to do with the whole social aspect of honey bees. Um, or it's technically called Usocial, E-U-S-O-C-I-A-L. And what that means is that it's it's a behavior where these bees have like, they live communally and they have sort of separation of labor, right? So in a honey bee colony, they form a hive, you know, they make the bees wax, the queen is in there, her job is to mate and then with the male and then lay eggs, and that's what she does. And then each of the different generations of bees that come out, they have like a whole work system, right? There are worker bees who are going out and gathering pollen, and there are guards, and there are brood bees that basically take care of the eggs and the babies and put them into the honeycomb in the little you know chambers and feed them honey and then cap it off when they pupate and all of that kind of thing, right? Most bees don't do that. So here's the thing: 90% of the bees on this planet are not living in those social hives. 90% of the bees on the planet don't have queens. They don't make honey. They uh they and they don't live in hives. They're solitary. And so here's how it works for the majority of bees. You have an individual female bee, you know, who emerges, and the bees are emerging now. They have been, you know, for the last month or so, um, depending on how far south, north or south you are. But that individual female bee is emerging from her, you know, where she pupated over winter in a little tube that, you know, where she hatched and and fed as a larva and then pupated and now is coming out, right? So the males actually emerge first and they're kind of waiting around for when the females emerge. So they're ready to go. So the the male and the female bee mates. That's the end of the story for the male. He's done his duty, he doesn't live for much longer after that. The female, then, now that she has mated, what she will do, and this varies a little bit from species to species, but what she, the solitary female bee, is seeking is a tunnel. And most of these solitary bees are looking for a tunnel in the ground. You know, sometimes they'll excavate them, sometimes they'll take advantage of tunnels made by other insects or critters, but a little narrow tunnel, again, depending on the size of the bee. And what she's gonna do is fly around and visit flowers. And this is the part that, again, is true of most bee species, right? They are gonna go out and they're gonna go to flowers, they're gonna drink the nectar, that's what fuels the adult bee, but they're gonna gather a lot of that and they're also gonna gather pollen. And then they're gonna take that nectar and pollen and roll it into like a little ball, which is called a bee loaf, which is just like so whimsical and cute, right? And she puts that little ball of nectar and pollen in the tunnel and she will lay an egg on it. And then what she'll do is build a little chamber wall, and she'll continue that process and fill that tunnel with a whole series of little chambers with an egg and with a bee, a bee loaf in there. And then once she does that, then she's done. And she doesn't live that much longer after she completes that process. She does not stick around to protect or feed those babies at all. Nothing like, again, a honey bee would do. And so it's a radically different way of living than what most people think of as bees, because again, no queens, no hives, no honey. And um I mentioned 90% of our bees are solitary. So of that 90%, about three-quarters of them are nesting in the ground. The other quarter or so are nesting in hollowed-out uh plant stems, you know. So, like last year's perennials, um, we'll talk about this, about what you can do to help support these bees in more detail in a minute. But, you know, they're they're going into those dead plant stems. They're going into, you know, a rotting log or even a dead standing tree that the termites are in on the carpenter ants, and they're tunneling, and the woodpeckers are drilling holes to get after them. The bees are using all of those tunnels in that dead wood as well as nesting places. So those are the other three things, you know, the no, no hives, no queens, no honey. Um, and then that leads to the fifth thing. And that is the whole bit about, you know, bees being dangerous and wanting to sting you and all of that. I mean, first of all, with honey bees, that's really not true either. So here's here's the deal with stingers. Stingers are actually a modified ovipositor. And an ovipositor is the structure on an insect, a female insect, that she uses to lay her eggs. And so with the the, you know, especially with the honey bees, most of them are not laying eggs. So their ovipositor really is just a stinger. And most bees, most of those 20,000 bees, the females anyway, have the ability to sting. There's one little group of stingless bees. I don't know exactly the number of species, but it's a tiny percentage. But you got to ask yourself the question why do bees sting? I mean, what do you think? To defend themselves.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

It's a last-ditch effort, last-ditch effort to survive, or in the case of those that do have hives, it's a way to defend a hive if need be. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Exactly. And that's really what it's all about. Stinging is not a um like a proactive thing. It's not an offensive thing. That's not their agenda. Exactly. Like they don't want to sting, especially honey bees. Right. Because honeybees die when they sting, because it actually rips out part of their abdomen. Most bees, that's not true of either. That's another thing that's not true about uh most bee species, is that they can sting multiple times, right? But you got to ask yourself, why would a bee sting? Right. They're certainly not trying to eat us, right? Um, and they're not gonna like again come after you because why would they do that? Why would they waste the energy and put themselves in danger by coming close to this big giant human that you know can squish them? So bees are stinging defensively. And the social bees, like the honey bee, are much more sort of prone to stinging because they have something to protect. They have invested so much time and energy to that hive, protecting their queen, um, that honey store, which is what the honey bees live on over the winter, and all of the babies in there, right? And this is this this is true, by the way. Most of everything I'm saying about bees is also true of wasps. Um, we'll have to do another episode on that, but just the gist is the same. There are some wasps that are social, hornets, yellow jackets. There's gotta be a bunch of them in a hive with a queen and you know, all of that good stuff. They're not making honey because wasps are pretty much carnivorous, but there are the vast majority of wasps are solitary and they're much, much, much less likely to ever sting you because they're not there to protect anything, right? Right. The only way these solitary bees and wasps will sting you is you if you literally like grab them in your hand and try to squish them. You know, it's not like, you know, again, uh a honey bee hive where if you happen to bumble and stump and stumble into it, you know, the bees are gonna come out and they're gonna defend that hive, right? The the the rest of these solitary bees don't do that because they're not sticking around to protect the babies that are in the tunnel that the female made. And so it's really hard to get them to sting you. Um, you know, uh, you know, you another instance, maybe, you know, maybe you step on it, right? That has happened to me before. I did get stung by a bumblebee once because I was wearing flip-flops in my garden and a bumblebee kind of fell and landed underneath my flip-flop and she stung me on the foot. But, you know, not her fault, right? Right. Um anyway, the whole everything you think you know about bees is wrong is really about those five things. Um, and and I have fun with it. You know, I I have a whole talk that I give. You know, I, as you know, I do a lot of speaking engagements all around the country. And um, I have a whole little quiz that I do in a in a in a slide deck where I ask these questions and I have people raise their hand, is this true or false? You know, all bees are black and yellow and bees live in hives and all that. And the answers, of course, are not a black and white, true and false, right? It's it's you know, most bees, right? And sometimes people get a little cranky about that because they're like, these are true questions, right? Like you know, but but I try I I do that deliberately because if you're okay believing a whole bunch of things about all bees based on one kind of bee, then the idea that everything you thought you know about bees is wrong based on 90% of the rest of the bees, I'm okay with that, right? And of course, as you know, as an educator, those kinds of things make the information stick in people's brains.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Um, sure. You can present something like here's a bunch of facts, or you can have some fun with it, make them think, go give them the aha moments.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Make it interactive and that kind of thing. So yeah, I mean, that's really the the gist of it. I mean, these bees are out there. Oh, actually, the other thing I want to say about this is that why is that the case? Why do most people only know these things about one kind of bee? And it goes back to what I was saying about honey bees being agriculturally important, which makes them economically important. Sure. Which means, like every other economically important thing, that they have a lobby, right? They have a PR agency out there, right? And there's a lot of, you know, professional organizations, you know, beekeeping associations and things like that, that are, you know, bringing the honey bee to the forefront of the media, you know, and that there's nothing wrong with that, right? But what ends up happening, again, is that people believe these things that are not true about most of our other bee species. And in fact, they don't even know anything about these other bees. And the the unfortunate reality is like so many other wildlife species, many of our native bees are in trouble. They are disappearing before our eyes. Many of them, we don't even know what their population status is because there's just not the science being done to monitor and track it. Uh, because again, there's not funding behind it, because there's not loads of money to be made on, you know, these bees, because they're wildlife, they're not being used for agriculture, et cetera. So so I feel like it's partly my duty. As a naturalist. And, you know, in my role at the National Wildlife Federation, where about wildlife? And, you know, insects are wildlife. That's another thing that bees have going against them in the in sort of the conservation world. Like we think of wildlife as, you know, bears and moose and, you know, dolphins and, you know, the big, the furry, the charismatic megafauna, as we like to call them, right? And so, but insects are wildlife. They're animals. And they happen to be an incredibly important group of wildlife. Bees in particular. So if you rewind back to, you know, 60 plus million years ago, um, when flowering plants first started to emerge. In fact, it was even longer ago than that. I think it was in the Cretaceous, uh, which is that middle period um, you know, of the sort of the age of the dinosaurs, right? Um, I'm sorry, the I think the the Jurassic is the middle period. I think it I have to double check myself on this. So if I would get this either way, it was a really long time ago. A really long time ago, right? With the emergence of flowering plants. Um, because you know, flowering plants were not always around. You know, for a huge portion of the history of life on earth, there were no flowering plants. So in the Jurassic is when they first started to evolve. And um, and then the wasps evolved first. And then out of the wasps, as more flowering plants came about and more wasps were learning that they could basically specialize in not hunting insects, but getting their protein from the pollen, a group of wasps basically specialized to the point where they, you know, essentially became vegetarians. And those are the bees, right? So they feed on flower nectar and pollen. Although, side note, I did recently learn about the carnivorous vulture bee. Um, and I want to give a shout out to Nat Geo because they have this incredible new series, and there's an episode or a couple episodes. I think it's called The Secret Life of Bees. Um, and in there they feature these uh vampire bees that are a South American species, and they actually don't visit flowers, they eat carrion. And fascinatingly, they are one of the social bees that also make honey, and they make it out of dead rotting animal flesh, not flower neck. Um, I don't know if I want to try that honey. I don't know. It's it's it's good. It can be sweet, but they say it's got that savory taste to it. It's got a savory note to it, as you would imagine. But anyway, the vast majority of these bees um, you know, that evolved from wasps are not, you know, they're no longer eating other insects the way that wasps are. They're specializing. And as the bees specialize, they fueled the evolution of flowering plants. And so today, the the ecosystems on this planet are largely sort of driven, the food webs anyway, by flowering plants. And something like 80 to 85% of flowering plants require an animal pollinator. And, you know, there's all sorts of animals out there that are pollinating. Most of them are insects. So for anybody curious about, you know, who are the pollinators, you know, pollinators are animals. They visit flowers, they for the reward of the nectar and the pollen, so sugar and protein, right? That's a food source. But plants are clever, right? They're smart. They figured out that they can't move from point A to point B themselves, right? Because plants don't really move like that, in order to mate, right? And so plants still do sexual reproduction. They have, you know, male and female parts and, you know, reproductive material that have to get from one place to the other. So this coevolution of largely bees, but a lot of other insects too, and flowering plants was basically the process of plants figuring out how to use these dumb animals to allow them to have sex. I mean, that's really what pollination is, because when the animal moves the pollen from one flower to another, that pollen is the male reproductive material and it then fertilizes the flower and it allows flowering plants to reproduce. Then, once those flowers are fertilized, many flowering plants package their seeds, which will be the next generation of that plant species, inside a delicious little snack in the form of a nut or a seed that has like a, you know, like a sunflower seed or a berry or a fruit, right? And then they rely, they have tricked a whole other group of dumb animals to come and eat those food sources, which has the seed in it, and the seed itself can travel through the digestive tract of that animal. And in fact, in some cases, it needs to, it needs to go through the stomach juices to wear out the seed coating so that the little seedling can actually sprout. Um, and then those animals disperse the seeds out around the world, right? So again, majority of our flowering plants, something like you know, 80 to 85 percent, um, and the majority of plants are flowering plants too. You can do the math, right? It's really critically important that we have healthy pollinators for the functioning of our food webs that are supporting all the other wildlife species out there, you know, not just the animals that are eating the plant material, right? Not just the you know, the fruit bats that are eating the fruit or you know, the animals that are feeding on the foliage, right? It's also all the animals that eat those animals, right? All the predators also rely on the pollinators. And so it is very true that if pollinators or even just bees disappeared tomorrow, life on this planet would come to a screeching halt pretty quickly. You know, within a year or two, there would be no food. And that includes us. We are part of the ecosystem. Human beings, you know, even though we do a lot of awful things to it and to our fellow species, like we rely on it just as much as everybody else. So bees are really important, and particularly our wild native bee species, because it's not the honey bees that are out there pollinating the plants in nature. It's our wild native bee species that are doing that. You know, the sad thing, like I was saying a few minutes ago, is that a lot of people don't know anything about these bees. They don't even know they exist and they're disappearing. So that's why at the National Wildlife Federation, we are really focused on educating people about this and helping, you know, raise awareness that many of our native bee species are disappearing, or again, we don't even know their conservation status. Um, I mean, there's a bee that used to be really common across a big part of the upper Midwest and the Northeast called the rusty patched bumblebee. And just in the last few decades, it's disappeared. I think there's like less than like 2% of the population that used to be there. And, you know, this is due to habitat destruction, you know, just trashing, developing, you know, whole cloth destroying habitat, but also replacing it with our lawns that we love to spray pesticides on, and replacing it with non-native plants that don't support our native bees in the same way that our native flora does, right? Um, and then again, more pesticides, right? Um, so these things are big factors in that. There's also competition and disease that comes from honey bees. So this is the one thing where, again, we love honeybees, they're really agriculturally important, we rely on them, but we have to be aware of the fact that honeybees, because they are generalists, they could basically nectar and gather pollen at any flower out there. Um, and a lot of our native bees, that's not true. They specialize, and we could talk about that in a second, too. So the honeybees, and because there's so many of them, can actually outcompete some of our native bees for those nectar and pollen resources. And again, because they're raised in captivity and they're social and they're around each other, those are conditions where disease can can spread. And there definitely are uh instances where they can spread the some of those diseases to wild bees, and then that's another, you know, just another stressor on them. So just something to keep in mind, you know, especially for backyard beekeepers, you know, again, I love that, but that's like backyard chicken keeping. And so you have to remember that if you're really trying to support nature and the pollinators, like getting a beehive is not really helping. Yeah, I'm not saying don't do it, but just understand what it is and what it isn't.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Right. So that takes me right to what I wanted to ask you is someone listening to this and their their head is now exploding because all these amazing facts you just dropped in a very short amount of time, and they're compelled to want to do something. The way you described the tunneling, the laying of the eggs, the bee bread, is there anything the average citizen who's now suddenly aware that there are these amazing native bees that they have just assumed were some sort of flying bug? Can they can anybody do something to help? Are there, you know, the obvious which you just covered, let's minimize spraying pesticides, let's try and plant more native plants. And it goes back to what you said back in November leave the leaves, leave the decaying plants, because those can be homes for these bees to do the reproductive cycle. In general, is there anything else we can do as uh either a homeowner or you're in an apartment with a patio or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah. Well, the my favorite part of this whole story is that it is so easy for everybody out there to do things to help support our native bees. And they're the things that you just said. Number one, plant more native plants. You know, this is something the National Wildlife Federation has been advocating for and educating people about since 1973 with our Garden for Wildlife movement. Um, and it it remains true, you know, native plants and native wildlife co-evolve together and they are like two pieces of a puzzle. And the more we can restore those indigenous plant communities, and they're gonna be different, you know. Hopefully, people all across the country and the world are listening, right? Wherever you live, you have a palette of native plants that evolved where you are, that are adapted to your conditions, and they are adapted to the use of the local wildlife. And so that includes our native bees. And I mentioned that a good chunk of our native bees, you know, I see different statistics. Um, anywhere from like 30 to 60 percent of our native bees are uh a fun word, oligolectic. Um, and what that means is that they are pollen specialists. I think more people are probably aware of how, you know, their caterpillars can only eat certain plants. Those are the caterpillar host plants for that species. You know, the classic example is the monarch butterfly. The only thing monarch caterpillars can eat is milkweed, right? So that means they've specialized. So these native bees, a huge percentage of them are pollen specialists. That means they can only feed their babies, the pollen, from very specific native plant species. And just like with butterflies and moths, if you don't have their caterpillar host plant present somewhere in the landscape, they can't complete their life cycle and they don't live around you and their populations go down. So native plants are really, really key in supporting our wild native bees. And you know, again, the National Wildlife Federation, we have a ton of resources on this. So I'm gonna just shout out our website. It's nwf.org, National Wildlife Federation.org slash garden. Um, and that'll take you to what we call our native plant habitat work, right? And there you will find all sorts of plant lists under the resources section. And you, we have some plant lists that are specifically designed to help support um, you know, the the plants that have the biggest value to some of these pollen specialist bees. So if you're looking for a plant list, you can go do that. But just going back to native plants in general, you know, when I started at the National Wildlife Federation um 26 years ago, I can't believe it's been that long. Um in the year 2000, and you know, out there, my my I was originally, you know, came to NWF to work in in this native plant habitat space and our backyard habitat work, all of that. And um, so I've been talking about this for quite a while. And back even 15 years ago, when I asked people the question, like, you know, are you familiar with native plants? Back in the day, no one would raise their hand. Today, so many people will raise their hand when I ask that question when I'm out there doing in-person talks. And that is huge. Yeah. So I and I mentioned that because a lot of the news is bad when it comes to conservation, as you know, right? It's there's there's just not a lot, there's a lot of uh decline of species and habitat destruction, and it's really hard to turn that around. And I just find that little anecdote that I can share with everybody listening, like it does matter. Yeah. It matters that we're talking about this, it matters that we're out there talking to people and engaging them and you know, raising awareness and educating. And I have seen it in the course of my career. I have seen the needle move in that awareness, right? Today, you can open up any gardening magazine, any gardening website, and they're talking about native plants. You can go into most big, even big nurseries. Almost certainly they're gonna have like a native plant section. My point with mentioning that is like you can get native plants nowadays a lot more easily than you could even a decade or so ago. And so for everybody out there listening, you know, it's springtime. May is Garden for Wildlife Month. It is the perfect time in most places in this country to make that commitment to plant some more natives. What's an even better thing to do is to give over a little piece of your lawn, maybe make one new garden bed this month, right? Or in during the month of May and plant some natives there, right? And don't get caught up, you know, we're talking about bees, and I'm dropping, you know, oligolectic pollen. You know, don't worry about that if you're just beginning. Literally just planting native plants is gonna be an incredible first step. And likely those native plants will be um, you know, supporting some of our native bees. And as you get more into it and you learn more and you access all the great resources that are out there online and in books and whatever, like you'll learn, right? You'll you'll pick up some things. And again, it's hard to say like plant this because it's gonna be different wherever you live, right? Because again, we have different ecoregions and different native plant species that grow there. But yeah, so that's the number one thing. Plant more native plants, reduce the size of your lawn as much as possible in favor, you know, native wildflowers and native trees and shrubs, many of which bloom, right? And are important pollen and nectar sources for our native bees. So plant natives, and that's like a very simple thing. It's almost like I don't even have to think anymore. Like I can do this one thing and know that it is making a difference. And even better, it's also going to be supporting all the other wildlife out there. The butterflies, the moths, too. So some of those native plants are gonna be caterpillar host plants. And as we talked about in the beginning, you know, 96% of our backyard birds are feeding their babies a diet of 100% insects and other invertebrates that need those native plants. If you don't have the native plants, the birds don't have anything to feed their babies. So it's it's like it's like a triple, quadruple, you know, whatever else, whammy when you plant native. You're really helping everything in your local ecosystem. So that's number one. Real quick.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Before you go to number two, I want to just reiterate and and reinforce what you said about being able to find native plants in your area. I know here in San Diego, there are a few nurseries that started, they had a little corner of native plants. And I can say over the years, that corner has become a section now. Yeah. And the general interest, there are still uh garden centers and nurseries that don't have native plants. And I really want to encourage you, if you go to one that does not, start asking the staff there if they know of a facility or place or supplier that has them. The more we speak up about it, the more we inquire, the more they're gonna be like, you know, maybe we should have some also. But then you can also then find by asking and speaking up and inquiring more. So yeah, definitely native plants are so important. And again, we're talking about bees, just like you said, David, but it's thread that goes all the way through to every other bit of wildlife in our area. And I'll say this too: as someone who's moved into a place that did not have native plants and then planted native plants, you'll be amazed how quickly these butterflies and bees and birds find what you've planted. Totally. They usually show up within the season, and then there's more the next season and more after that. So it's really a lot of fun, especially if you have kids. Let's let's like explore and figure out what our native wildlife is like. You put these plants in place and they show up.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to be corny and to, you know, to use the line from field of dreams, if you build it, they will come. Like if you plant it, they will come. Yeah. But that that it's so important that we do plant it because the less native plants that are out there, the longer that goes on, the less likely there's going to be a population. Right. Population goes away. Those pollinators to come. Um is number two. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you said that. And I forgot to mention, too, um, that you don't have to be a botanist, right? You don't have to do a bunch of research. What um what there are, and the National Wildlife Federation included, we spun off a for-profit plant business called Garden for Wildlife, where you can actually go and get, you know, purchase online all around the country, native plants for your region that we have curated to be what we call keystone plants. So these are plants that have like the biggest bang in terms of habitat value. And you again, we want to make it easy, right? We'll deliver them to your door, the top plants, and of course, you know, they're all in collections. So you can get the bee collection or the firefly collection or the butterfly collection or the shade collection. We want to make it easy for people. So you can do that kind of thing. There's tons of mail order uh options out there today. You can go to your local nursery. And I just want to really underscore what you said, Rick. Use your voice, right? The power of a consumer is a million times more potent than an advocate and an educator like myself or you, right? Like I can be talking till I'm blue in the face. Plant native, it's really important. The nurseries don't care about me, right? But if I go in as a customer and I even just ask the question, hey, do you guys carry native plants? If enough of us do that, guess what? They're gonna carry native plants because they want to support their customers. Customer demand is huge. So please, yes, yes, yes, everybody use your voice. And it's really important. So, yes, the second thing that we can all do is stop spraying the pesticides. I'll say it again. Please stop spraying the pesticides. And pesticides in are the there's just any kind of uh substance that kills things, right? So insecticides are pesticides, herbicides are pesticides, rodenticides are pesticides, and so on, right? So I, in my opinion, I would say 99. There are better solutions for the home landscape than resorting to you know these toxic chemicals. And, you know, just because something is botanical or plant-based or quote unquote organic, that doesn't necessarily mean it's okay, right? And this is another thing, like a consumer education thing that I think is really important to understand. You know, there are synthetic chemicals, you know. Well, actually, let me back up. Everything's a chemical. Right. Right. Everything's a chemical. So when we, you know, we fall into this thing, oh, chemicals, they're bad, you know, that's not really accurate scientifically. Um, so yeah, the synthetic chemicals can be worse because they do tend to persist longer in the in the environment and kill more things than maybe botanical-based uh pesticides or organic ones. But even those, you know, are gonna kill. So when it comes to the insecticides, right, there are the ones that you just spray, right? And you just spray on top of the plant or whatever. But kind of more insidiously, there is a group of pesticides, insecticides called neonicotinoids. Um, again, another jargony term for everybody out there. You don't even necessarily even need to know that. What you need to know is that neonicotinoids are systemic. So when a plant is treated with them, every part of the plant, not just the spot that you sprayed, absorbs those insecticides and they are broad spectrum, meaning that they'll kill any insect that consumes any part of that plant, including the nectar, including the pollen. And even if it doesn't kill that insect outright, it can weaken their immune system, make them more susceptible to disease, shorten their lifespan. So it has an impact. So for everybody listening as a consumer, what you want to do is ask before you purchase and say, were these plants treated with systemic insecticides or pesticides, whatever term you want to use? And if the nursery can't answer that, don't buy the plant. Because unfortunately, even our native plants that are, you know, cultivated and widely available oftentimes are treated just like all the other garden plants, right? Just because it's a native plant doesn't guarantee that it was not treated with a neonicotinoid systemic insecticide. And, you know, it is true that the neonicotinoids are a lot better in some regard than some of the older types of pesticides that, again, people could get on their skin or they would persist for longer amounts of time in the environment. But, you know, pesticides are a tool. We sometimes use them in conservation, you know, like if we have to take care of a really bad infestation of a non-native invasive plant species or whatever. You know, so I'm not trying to be militant or super black and white, there are shades of gray here, right? Maybe sometimes, maybe you do have an infestation of a really bad invasive plant on your property. And the only way for the greater good, you know, for the for the ecosystem to manage that is to use some, you know, some herbicide. So what I would say in that scenario is if you have to, if you have exhausted all the tried and true organic gardening techniques, like, you know, handpicking and cutting and all of that kind of stuff, um, you know, try to pick something that is targeted, and you can get certain pesticides that really only affect a specific insect. Insect or group of insect or you know specifically target plants but have very low toxicity to other things. So again, do a little bit of research on that. Um, one great example is BT, which is a kind of soil bacteria called Bacillus thrunggiensis. These are soil soil bacteria that when consumed by insects will kill them. But there are all these different strains of BT. So you can get one that just targets, for example, mosquitoes. And it's the strain Israeliensis that only will kill the larva of mosquitoes and a few other sort of pest species of flies. So like fungus gnats, if you're if you have house plants, you know what I'm talking about. Fungus gnats, they get in the soil if you overwater and then they are, you know, flying around your house and driving you crazy. They don't really cause any harm to anything. But you can also use the BT uh Israeliensis strain. Um and there are other strains that will, you know, target different, like if you have to, and I'm telling you, you probably don't have to, you know, try to do a little bit of research and find one of those that is the least toxic. Speaking of mosquitoes, I'm gonna get on a soapbox for a second. And that is that I am seeing in the last few years a huge increase in the number of people who are hiring sometimes specialty companies that will come and spray your whole yard to kill the mosquitoes, right? And so I just have to remind everybody that when they're spraying your yard to kill the mosquitoes, they are using broad spectrum synthetic pesticides, insecticides, uh, a group of pesticides called pyrethroids, right? They're spraying this everywhere, and any insect that comes in contact with it is going to die. And they specifically spray it all over your plants, all around the perimeter of your yard, right? There's even some research showing that it's actually not good for us, as you know, your kids only imagine whatever, right? So just be really mindful of that. And please do not believe their marketing claims. They're like, oh yeah, they're either pollinator safe. Absolutely not true. Flat out lie. You know? So don't believe that. Please do not do that. There are way better ways that you can avoid mosquito bites. And I actually have a whole section on on this in my book. We've got articles up on National Wildlife Federation's website. Well, what's the book? You can't just say you've got it in your book and not tell us the book. So my book is called Attracting Birds, Butterflies, and Other Backyard Wildlife. Ooh, I like it. A little bit of a mouthful, but the idea is it's a how-to book that will walk you through step by step all the things you need to do to create what we call a natural habitat garden or a wildlife habitat garden that's going to provide natural sources of food and water and cover and places to raise young for everything from songbirds to bees and butterflies to reptiles and amphibians, if that's your jam, right? And so it walks you through chapter by chapter each thing that you, you know, each of those categories of things and all the different ways that you can create that habitat in your own yard. And then of course, that all leads to what we hope folks will do once they create that habitat, is to get that space, that garden space, whether it's your yard or a balcony where you have a container garden or your rooftop or your local community garden, wherever. Um, we we want people to apply to have that recognized as what we call a certified wildlife habitat garden with the National Wildlife Federation. Basically means you just sort of join the movement. And you can get a yard sign and you put that out and it helps spread the word in a super grassroots kind of way. Again, there's only so many of talks that I can give and media interviews that I can give. So if you are into this stuff and you really care, doing the whole certified wildlife habitat thing is a really fantastic way of paying it forward and spreading the word. You know, the bees and the butterflies and the birds, they don't, they can't read the sign, right? There's nothing, you know, like the most important thing is you create the habitat. But when you do that extra step and you kind of join our program, um, you really become part of this grassroots movement that, again, we started back in 1973 at the National Wildlife Federation, just trying to get people to think a little bit more about how I can have less of a negative impact, right? What are these simple things that I can do that will make a huge difference on that super local level? This whole thing is the epitome of that old environmentalist uh, you know, this phrase, think globally, act locally. And that is one of the most powerful things about this whole thing, this whole natural gardening movement for me, is that there's very little that I can do as an individual that's gonna, I don't know, save polar bears or save lions, you know, which are rapidly disappearing, right? Like that, like I can do things, but it's largely, you know, donating and, you know, using my voice and, you know, being an activist and that kind of thing. When with with all of these groups of wildlife, again, attracting birds, butterflies, and other backyard wildlife, the title of my book, it's all of these wildlife species that can safely coexist right alongside us, right in the middle of our cities, towns, and neighborhoods, literally right outside our doors, if we just give them a little bit of habitat, right? And that boils down to planting natives, don't sprang pesticides. If each of us did that, even in a little small way, we would exponentially increase the amount of habitat and we would see more beautiful songbirds and hear them, right? We would be seeing more beautiful butterflies. We would be seeing more of these native bees doing this really incredibly important ecological work of pollinating nature, right? That's feeding everybody else up and down the food webs, including us. Um, and I did, you know, I talked a lot about honey bees and how they're agriculturally important. A lot of our native bees are too. So of course, yes. Yeah. Bumblebees are used uh, you know, to pollinate a lot of different crop plants. Um, there's a a kind of bee called a blueberry bee. Guess what that pollinates? I'm gonna go with uh blueberries. Yeah, commercially, right? So um orchard bees, uh, mason bees are out there pollinating fruit trees. And some of these wild native bee species are actually way more efficient at pollinating than honey bees are. Um and so they're they're also agriculturally important. And some of them are actually managed, like some of the mason bees, in the same way that um that the honey bees are. But largely it's the wild bees that are out there not only pollinating the plants in nature, but supporting the the pollination of our own crops. So yeah, I mean, it really is that simple is plant more natives, don't spray pesticides. You know, it's garden for wildlife month in May. So it's the perfect time to like, again, join the movement, get that garden space certified, get the yard signed, put it out there. Um, a lot of people like getting the recognition too. And that's partly why we've always had this sort of uh aspect of the program. It's really the the recognition. You know, we want to we wanna tell people like you are doing something awesome and recognize that. So that's really what it's all about. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

So as we're winding down here, I want to make sure. So you mentioned the Garden for Wildlife website for being able to order native plants that are for your region, for your area, specific for whatever you might be looking for. Where else can people go?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

So the National National Wildlife Federation, is it just it's just NWF National Wildlife Federation dot or g slash garden. And there you will get links to our native plant finder, which I didn't mention yet. You can put your zip code in. And this native plant finder is basically the research of Dr. Doug Talamy. Um native plants, you know who Doug is. He's an entomologist who is one of the few scientists that are actually studying and producing data uh looking at the impact of native plants in sort of the human landscape on wildlife, specifically insects. Um, and so Doug wrote a book, you know, 12, 15 years ago called Bringing Nature Home, and it was for the Mid-Atlantic, and and what it was, he produced a list of these keystone plants, specifically for butterflies and moths as their caterpillar host plants. So, like it kind of blew everyone's mind because nobody really thought about, I don't know, oak trees as being critically important for butterflies. But it turns out oaks, the genus Quercus, is a hugely important caterpillar host plant. Over 500, it's something like 557 species of butterflies and moths use oaks as their caterpillar host plant. Right. So like when you're planting a butterfly garden, everybody thinks, oh, plant all the pretty flowers, and that's important. That's a nectar source for the adults. But you also want to think about that fourth component of habitat, food, water, places to raise young, right? That is, you know, you need the host plants, right? And it's the same for the bees. So anyway, on nwf.org slash garden, you can find the native plant finder. You'll get that list of native plants to your zip code based on science that are the keystone plants for butterflies and moths. Um, you can access, there's a link to garden for wildlife, native plant um, you know, the retail line. So you can order, you know, kits of native plants and we'll mail them to you that we've done all the hard work for you already. You know that they're going to be really good plants. We have a million articles and tip sheets and downloadable PDFs of plant lists, um, you know, regional information. All of that stuff is there. There's also links there to buy my book, um, which you can get from any bookstore. Um, just ask for it. Um, you know, attracting birds, butterflies, and other backyard wildlife. It is a book that uh the portion of the proceeds go back to support the National Wildlife Federation's book uh our programs, our wildlife programs. So again, you can feel good about it. But it's a simple, you know, if you want to learn more. I wrote it so that newbies would pick it up and it would be really easy. But also, if you're, you know, already a little bit experienced, I think there'll there'll be some fun things in there that maybe um you'll learn for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

So there's links to it's a great gift too for those that are seasoned in this type of stuff. It's a great gift for them to give. Like here's part of my passion. I want you to learn more about that for them to give to someone who's just learning.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

So absolutely is right around the corner, too. So it's a great Mother's Day gift. Um, so if people want to find you. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, I was just gonna say, I'm gonna say it one more time nwf.org slash garden, and um again, a wealth of resources there. And we're also on social media too, so you can follow the National Wildlife Federation. Um it's either NWF or National Wildlife, depending on the platform. Garden for Wildlife, the the retail native plants, has a huge footprint on social media. I do a lot of live streams with them and collabs on social, so they're a great one to follow as well. And I, of course, am on all of the socials as well. That's what I was gonna ask next. Where can people find you if they want to find it? Pretty much everywhere. So um, you know, write my name down because I'm usually uh on most platforms, I'm D for David, and then my whole last name. Probably not the best because it's hard to remember how to spell my last name. Well, I'll have links in the show notes, so don't worry. Um but yeah, you can find me anywhere, you know, Facebook, uh Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok, et cetera, YouTube. And um yeah, I love interacting with folks. So ask questions, reach out. Again, if you want to do a collab and help get the word out, I'm totally game. So yeah. Um and it's again, I just the I just want to emphasize how easy this is. And it's it's such a feel-good thing, um, especially in these times where you know political upheavals and strife, and there's a lot of bad stuff going on in the world. And to know that we all have the power to do something really, really basic and simple, literally right outside our door, that not only is gonna make a big difference in in the ecosystem, but like you're gonna get to see the results of your effort. I guarantee it. And nothing is more inspirational than that experience of trying to do something good and then having the good happen right before your eyes. I mean, that lifts people up so much. And you know, even if you don't care about the bees, right? Like do this. And when you see the bees show up, I guarantee you, you know, your heart's gonna grow, you know, three sizes right there in that instant.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Well, this has been, as always, a wonderful talk, David. I I can't thank you enough for taking the time, and I love the fact that you know we're heading right. So this this is the end of April when this episode comes out. So we're heading into the month of May, which is a big guard kickoff for you guys there at at uh NWF. And the timeliness too. So a couple episodes back, I was talking to Griff Griffith, and he was talking about how important native plants are and that it's actually good when the insects are eating them because that means the caterpillars are getting their food and you know, all of that. So it's just a another great resource for people. Your book, the websites, everything else. Thank you so much for what you do. I know we've known each other for a while, but I always have admired you and appreciate the work you do and the and the work anyone does when they show up day after day after day, not because they're getting paid, but because this is their passion, which is very clear with you, David. So thank you for all you do and thank you for taking the time to uh sit down and have this conversation with me today.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Well, I appreciate you saying that, Rick, and back at you. Um and yeah, I I as you can tell, I love talking about this stuff. So we gotta come up with what we're gonna talk about next. So be thinking.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

All right, something maybe in the summer, something before we get to fall.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Yeah, the summertime, um, there's uh national moth week in the summer. So maybe I can come back and talk about moths. Yes, let's do that. So fascinating. I know I I'm gonna go on a whole tangent on moths right now, so stop me.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

I know, right? And the thing about moths is that there's so many cool species that people don't realize are right there in their own neighborhood because we're sleeping at nighttime when most of those species are active, but there's also some daytime moths too. So yeah, there's so much to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

You know, those darn butterflies hog up all the attention, just like the blue bees do, because they're big and pretty and they fly during the day. But yeah, there's a lot of secrets that uh about about moths that people don't know uh how they're actually even way more important as pollinators and in and in the ecosystem than butterflies are. Yeah. So you really want to be planting those moth gardens, not just butterfly gardens.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

But yeah, so I think we've got our next topic. We've got our next topic, buddy. Excellent. That's awesome. All right, well, thanks again, man. I appreciate it. You're welcome. And of course, thank you, dear listeners. I appreciate you joining me today with this conversation with David. And you know, David and I, as we wrap up the interview, talk about the different websites and social media platforms. You can find more information. And this is great information. It's so impactful. We talk about often how our own little actions and our own little ecosystem can make a difference. This is it. This is a great way. Your garden space, your patio, your balcony, your school, your office, wherever it might be, that you can plant these native plants. All that information, all those links, everything we talked about are in the show notes below. Animals Nature New has its own presence on Instagram as well, so the link is there for that. Please feel free to join me there or myself. You can get my website, zoologyric.com or zoology rec on just about any social media platform that I'm active on. All of that to say too, don't forget about fan mail. If you're listening to this podcast on a podcast player, go to the show notes. That very first link says fan mail. That's a way to get a hold of me directly in text or view voicemail. I don't see your numbers, so privacy is all involved. Don't worry about that. But I put that in there because I recognize not everybody's on social media. Sometimes you take a break from social media, or sometimes just flat out done with it, and I totally get it. So I want another way for us to stay in touch. With that, I want to wrap this up because we had a nice long, robust conversation with David and so much great information. I encourage you to share this episode with people in your family, in your life. People you work with people you know have yards, it could have a makeover of natural plants. It is such great information. Fascinating to learn all about those bees, but also that reminder of how much we can do in our own yard, in our own space. And he gave out information how you can access stuff specific to your environment, your area code, your zip code, your your space. So it's it's not just one thing fixes all. We need to be specific to our native plants, and he has all that information on those websites. Again, I want to say the last thing, make sure you follow or subscribe so you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. Every Thursday, great interviews like our interview today, and every Tuesday are 10 minute Tuesday, which either reflection back to species we talked about or something important in current events regarding nature or wildlife animals, or maybe even you. Alright, have a good one, everybody.